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getting up by palaeorigamipete getting up by palaeorigamipete
a comparison of a monoped and a biped getting up when they fall.

aknowledgements:

this is the monopod in question: [link]

I used front view to illustrate this because it permitted all legs being visible in both cases.

I propose the most likely position the monoped could be found in after a fall is on its side.

in the biped sequence, i propose this is what it would look like when t-rex was getting up. (minimal forelegs)

In step four of the biped sequence, the hip joint is a ball joint so you see the leg from the side rather than front.

the same is true for step two of the second monoped sequence, but there i argue the joints are being subjected to too much strain or even dislocated.
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:iconscinlao:
Scinlao Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Very true. If you're going to have a monopedal creature, a good idea is to give it a long, heavy tail to throw to give it an extra push up.
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:iconpalaeorigamipete:
palaeorigamipete Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
well it coulod help of course, but I think hopping as the only possible way of movement is incredibly energetically expensive, so monopods as such are not very plausible. =) anything with two and mor elegs would outcompete them anyway =)
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:iconscinlao:
Scinlao Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Oh of course! I totally agree :P But there are some accommodating variables if they need to be present :P
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:iconpalaeorigamipete:
palaeorigamipete Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
there always are more variables :lol:
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:iconscinlao:
Scinlao Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I love variables ^^ lol
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:iconpalaeorigamipete:
palaeorigamipete Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
:D
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:iconadiraiju:
Adiraiju Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Heh, this is great!

I suppose a long, flexible body could allow it to roll onto its single leg, but then balance would be a real problem...
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:iconpalaeorigamipete:
palaeorigamipete Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I am not sure I can picture the process you're proposing :-? but as I said above, there is nothing inherently wrong with monopods not being able to get up, all lifeforms have their limitated and constrained by their anatomy :D
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:iconadiraiju:
Adiraiju Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Fair enough...

I was picturing a ridiculously long, serpentine body that was able to place its single foot underneath it simply by coiling around that one foot... but honestly, it would barely be able to move...
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:iconpalaeorigamipete:
palaeorigamipete Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
yeah, that serpent would probably be much better off being legless XD
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:iconoblivionjunkey94:
OblivionJunkey94 Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Lol youre a funny guy petr is the dot in the circle the center of gravity or a pokeball?
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:iconpalaeorigamipete:
palaeorigamipete Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
the former of course!
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:iconoblivionjunkey94:
OblivionJunkey94 Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Lol i knew it just wondering if any one else saw the resemblance
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:iconpalaeorigamipete:
palaeorigamipete Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
of course, you are not the first one to mention that actually...
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:iconoblivionjunkey94:
OblivionJunkey94 Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Well now i dont feel stupid .o.
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:iconpalaeorigamipete:
palaeorigamipete Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
XD
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:iconcowburger13:
Cowburger13 Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
Glad to see you drawing again. Rather interesting by the way. (Also, it looks like a pokeball with legs :D )
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:iconpalaeorigamipete:
palaeorigamipete Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
i knew someone will mention pokeballs XD
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:iconcowburger13:
Cowburger13 Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
And you knew it would be me right? :D
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:iconpalaeorigamipete:
palaeorigamipete Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
nope, but I expected someone would mention that XD
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:iconcowburger13:
Cowburger13 Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
:D Ok :D I command you to upload moar drawings. I love em. ;)
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:iconpalaeorigamipete:
palaeorigamipete Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
XD you command me XD

You know what I say?

Your authority is not recognized inside Fort Kickass! XD

[link]
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:iconcowburger13:
Cowburger13 Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
D: I am president of fort kickass!
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:iconpalaeorigamipete:
palaeorigamipete Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
nope XD
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(1 Reply)
:iconpokequaza:
pokequaza Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013
What if.. the center of gravity is moved to the bottom, so that the body alone would roll over with its belly facing down and its back facing up, basically just using gravity. The leg has to be able to fold into the underside of its body in such a way that it does not hinder the rolling movement, therefore, however, the creature must have some sort of channel in which its leg perfectly fits. Then all it has to do is stand up.
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:iconpalaeorigamipete:
palaeorigamipete Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I see what you mean, but the monopod in question doesn't seem to have any of the structures you mentioned. also, if you follow the link, I think the diagrams I used are a decent approximation of that alien's shape, the body seems approximately cylindrical sitting atop a rather bird-like leg. like I daid, I think I wasn't further hindering the monopod in question (you can folow the link I've given in the description) when drawing this, i think I've put that alien's center of gravity in a reasonable place judging from the shape of the sculpt. ;)
As to your ideas, that's certainly possible, if the animals lungs were on the top and guts on the bottom of the body, then the top of the animal would be less dense making the center of gravity lower, but the leg would still be in the way. I understand how you imagine it would be possible to fold the leg into the body and letting the animal roll, but I think having a "channel" on the belly for this sole purpose is not very likely and would have some further consequences for the animal.
but like i said above, there is no inherent problem with monopods not being able to get up when they fall, that's just a limitation of their body plan. all body plans have limitations. but a tortoise on it's back and it's helpless too =)
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:iconpokequaza:
pokequaza Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013
Well, the creature in question is doomed anyway if it falls, I was just trying to come up with a simple solution to this problem. I guess that a monopod wouldn't stand a chance if it had to compete with more stable life forms in the first place. But in a world where falling over means death, I think it isn't that farfetched to think that a monopod would come up with a way to get itself standing again.

Turtles are able to flip over if they happen to get upside down, I'm sure there are enough videos on youtube about it. Also, turtles probably won't end up upside down as often anyway.
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:iconpalaeorigamipete:
palaeorigamipete Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
that's kind of the point. on a planet dominated by monopod creatures, there is no competition from bipeds/more stable lifeforms and therefore monopods are free to go. =)
I guess the easiest way how to deal with falling is to prevent it if you have problems getting up. =) I guess an advanced sense of ballance and a mobile foot are sufficient for successful movement. after all, even with just one leg, the best individuals are most likely to survive and reproduce :D
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:iconjwartwork:
JWArtwork Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Haha, lol. :lol: But yes, this is very insightful! :nod:
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:iconpalaeorigamipete:
palaeorigamipete Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
=)
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:icontskorigami:
tskorigami Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
hmm...interesting insight into this problem =D
i think maybe the monopod could have some sort of miniature support flaps or something on its body? :B
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:iconpalaeorigamipete:
palaeorigamipete Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
well not the monopod in question. =) (see the link ;P)
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:iconkingovrats:
KingOvRats Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013   Traditional Artist
I love the text bubbles here xD

As for the problem however... true a monopod would have problems with getting up, but if it turned to lay on it's belly and then folded the leg under itself... straightenng the limb would allow it to get up. Certainly not an easy task, but for a being with an extraordinary balance.... possible I guess. Nature is creative, I'm sure you know of the bugs which can turn themselves if they happen to fall o their back;p Huge birds live in mountains for it would be impossible for them to take off in normal terrain.. why not a monopod then? (It would certainly be useful if there is a mine field around =P )
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:iconpalaeorigamipete:
palaeorigamipete Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I am not arguing against monopods, I am just comparing them, showing their limitations in comparison with a more conventional body plans. After all, if monopods were the dominant fauna of some planet, then they would all have the same problem with getting up. =) This is just an observation directed at the author of this species and is certainly not to be taken as a negative criticism in any way shape or form =)
after all, all lifeforms have limitations and not always ideal solutions to certain tasks or problems, because evolution is a blind watchmaker and a mindless tinkerer, it cannot start a species from scratch, it can only work with what it gets from the previous generation so things that are "dumb design" for an engineer are not surprising, but rather expected! :D just look at us, what engineer would give us over a hundred genes for an excellent sense of smell, then crippled two thirds of them and still left those crippled genes in our genome? what engineer would make an animal that breaths and eats through the same tube? When was the last time when you needed an extra pair of arms? (that would come in handy, don't you think? :D)(puns, puns everywhere... XD) and I could go on and on and on :D
but back to the topic. if you look at the cheetah-gazelle relationship, the gazelle dies if it trips over no matter how many legs it has, so even in the world ruled over by tetrapods, a fall can be the last thing to do. the only difference is that if you're not chased by a predator, you are not as helpless as a monopod would be, that's the only difference, but I have nothing against monopods, after all, anything is possible in a universe this big, and I welcome anything that is different from life on earth (and this monopod certainly is :D) When thinking about it, tortoises can't help themselves either if you put them on their backs... :D like i said above, all lifeforms are limited, a perfect lifeform can't even exist and there is nothing inherently wrong with a monopod not being able to get up, that's just a consequence of that particular body plan. =)
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:iconkingovrats:
KingOvRats Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013   Traditional Artist
Haha I think perfect lifeform could theoritically exist but it would mean rather a disaster for it's ecosystem and mass extinction xD.

I didn't know about these smell genes, interesting. Monopods as dominant type of animal? that sounds nice. I guess they would get more joints, just as a bird has more vertebrae in it's neck for not being able to use front limbs. Also, with all these possibilities w have in mind would be kind of ridiculous if actually it turn out that "earthly" design is the most efficent and an alien planet is discovered with mostly tetrapod animals having two eyes and a single set of jaws xD I bet both of us would be like :iconyunomemeplz: ALIENZ Y U NO MOAR KREATIV xD
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:iconpalaeorigamipete:
palaeorigamipete Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
well wouldn't that render this hypothetical perfect lifeform impossible? =D
also, the universe as i see it is not perfect and therefore "perfect" cannot exist within the universe ;)
"perfect" is just an unreachable construct made by humanity to always have something to look up to and improve itself :)

in a universe this big, i can't deny the possibility of two-jawed, two-eyed tetrapods being the dominant fauna on a number of planets, even planets being millions of lightyears away and each of them coming as a result of their unique evolutionary history, and I indeed think that if convergence exists between two continents, it can exist between two planets as well, but I don't think it is going to be the rule. what do we know? maybe an alien genetic information would be coded differently and this difference in coding would permit body shapes we couldn't even dream up? :D
On a more serious note, there is going tobe some convergence. a dominant lfeform should be able to move quickly and efficiently in its surroundings, and it should have eyes. (yes i am kinda biased against sonar-using alien concepts... =))
an aquatic creature, it doesn't matter whether primarly or secondarily, is going to have fins or fin rims or jet propulson system, an aerial animal is going to have wings and a terrestrial animal is going to have legs. how many jaws, eyes, legs, fins or wings there are going to be is variable, but I would argue that two is the minimum :)

Indeed, if we find two-eyed, two-jawed tetrapods on an alien planet, if i lived to see it, i would be very dissapointed. :D
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:iconkingovrats:
KingOvRats Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013   Traditional Artist
I think it all dependson a view point and definition of >perfection<. In terms of reproduction sukcess we humans could be viewed as perfect, compared to our number and the numbers of smilarly sized animals (sorry bugs and bacteria - you don't count in this case xD). This means until zombie apocalypse.:D

Haha I remeber you don't like sonar.:D It might seem unlikely but is it impossible? I mean I some times think if there emerged some kind of civilisation around Carboniferous. How many things that actually did evolve woud they find ridiculous? "Hey guys and what do you think of flying vertebrates! Or perhaps a group of animals that grows glands which it uses to feed their young insteda of catching food for them? And maybe a group of animals that adapts perfectly to living on land and then returns to water grows back it's fins and actually become bigger than any fish even thoufgh they still have to go back tu surface every... - go home Mike, you're drunk!" If there was anyone to predict things at the end of Mesosoic would he possibly predict evolution of hooves? Or bat's wing? (naaah, if one finger was enough to support the membrane it's extremely unlikely that four fingers would evolve for the same purpose, it's a waste!) :D
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:iconpalaeorigamipete:
palaeorigamipete Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Well... I just think that using sonar as a leading sense in daylight is really dumb, I just can't find anything "clever" or "advantageous" about it. If you get down to the core, what is sonar/echolocation? it's shouting to hear a whisper. In low visibility environments, night time, in caves or deep or murky water... sure. but no echolocating animals use echolocation if they can orient themselves with sight. my main problem with echolocation is that if you are a predator, you are revealing yourself to your prey, and if you are prey, you are revealing yourself to predators. I am of the opinion that if a planet is too dark for eyes to be useful, it is not suitable for complex multicellular lifeforms to exist there (anything more complex than a nematode or maybe a flatworm would really surprise me.) On earth, eyes evolved over thirty times separately in as distantly related organisms you could imagine, eyes evolved at least three separate times among molluscs only! in a gastropod+cephalopod ancestor, in some clams and in polyplacophorans, which are probably the most alien critters that still live today. eyes from aragonite and teeth from magnetite. what the hell XD anyway, point is, creatures as distantly related as Euglena and the giant squid have light-sensing organs, and sensitivity to light appeared multipple separate times in earth's history, and even as "useless" animals as clams are find the weak sight they have advantageous. I think I have a sound argument there that sight is the most likely primary sense among the majority of dominant animal phylla on any planet that recieves enough light to make complex life possible. =)

well I get what you mean with your points of looking at the present from carboniferous lense, but I am surprised that you didn't mention food and feathers. what kind of bullshit is that? XD
Mesozoic... herbivorous dinosaurs had hoof-like nails already, so that's kind of a misfire there =P
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:iconkingovrats:
KingOvRats Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013   Traditional Artist
I see... whell I guess I can't argue now.:D

Still I heard many times that there could be life in the ocean located unther the ice on a moon of some planet further from the sun. In such condition don't you think eyes would be not the best solution? :)

I thought of sauropods but they didn/t have all fingers melted alltogether did they?>
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:iconpalaeorigamipete:
palaeorigamipete Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
well what do you mean? deer have two hooves per foot... :D

P.S. Are you possibly hinting europa? :D
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(1 Reply)
:iconbaltorigamist:
Baltorigamist Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
So what's harder: for the monopod to stand or for me to get up in the morning? It's close. :D
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:iconpalaeorigamipete:
palaeorigamipete Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
well that's including other variables in the problem... XD
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:iconparady:
Parady Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013
that is insightful !
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:iconpalaeorigamipete:
palaeorigamipete Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
thank you =)
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